--- Log opened Wed Jun 01 09:53:21 2011
11:31 -!- tbonnema_ is now known as tbonnema
12:08 < Taylor_> I'm not clear if the names listed are online or are just members. I won't be here at 2, but wanted to sign up for future.
12:09 < Taylor_> I see people I know so if you're online, I'd love a "hello"
12:16 < mcallan> Taylor_: it looks people are just joining in advance, about a dozen now. greetings!
12:42 < Taylor_> well, they'll be joining and I'll be exiting.
12:43 < Taylor_> But I'll leave behind this greeting to Michael and Tim. Not sure if I know anyone else on the list, but greetings to all and I hope to meet you at next go around.
12:47 < tbonnema> hi there.
12:47 < tbonnema> sorry, just saw this.
12:49 < tbonnema> the idea is to grow this into enough of a crowd that there's always someone online.  ;-)
12:49 < tbonnema> but mostly, I hope we can establish the IRC as an additional backchannel during certain events and conferences.
12:49 < tbonnema> when Twitter's 140 characters just aren't enough.
12:52 < pudo> tbonnema: hi. you're running participatedb, right?
12:52 < tbonnema> yes.
12:52 < pudo> cool, big fan :-)
12:53 < tbonnema> thanks.  starting to work on a relaunch.  hopefully later this summer.
12:53 < tbonnema> easier browsing, easier content adding
12:55 < pudo> have discovered a lot of useful things through it - are you running this as a side project?
12:56 < tbonnema> yes
13:55 < Taylor_> Tim, you know that "health willing" you can count me in. My best to ya!
14:05 < tbonnema> hi Taylor *waves*
14:11 < tbonnema> @pudo if you're interested, I can set up an account for you on ParticipateDB (so you can add tools, project and references)
14:11 < pudo> tbonnema: wow, thanks!
14:12 < tbonnema> there are about 40+ contributors (though only a few are active)
14:12 < tbonnema> just email me at tim@intellitics.com
14:14 < pudo> this is mostly focused on participation specifically, not transparency etc., right?
14:31 < tbonnema> correct.
14:33 < tbonnema> our goal is to document tools that either (a) were designed for the purpose of public participation (mainly, this is about involving people in decision making to some extent) or (b) are being used for that purpose (e.g. because they're easily available, such as Facebook, blogs etc.)
14:33 < tbonnema> and also show how each tool is being applied in practice (our project examples and references)
14:34 < tbonnema> it's mostly web-based technology but not exclusively (there's a few desktop applications listed as well)_
14:36 < tbonnema> for tools/projects related (more) to transparency, check out http://civiccommons.org
14:54 < tropology>  :)
14:56 -!- guest4210 is now known as richard_p
14:56 < tbonnema> grabbing some coffee...
15:00 < tbonnema> someone let me know when the clock strikes twelve.
15:00 < tbonnema> (Pacific)
15:00 < tbonnema> I guest it's time. ;-)
15:00 < tropology> :)
15:00 < tbonnema> alright then, let's get right to it.
15:01 < tbonnema> welcome, all. nice crowd today.
15:01 < tbonnema> if you're joining for the first time:
15:01 < tbonnema> the goal is to make this a standing backchannel (in addition to Twitter and others), mainly to be used during certain events and conferences
15:01 < tbonnema> focused on #edem that are are happening around the world.
15:02 < tbonnema> if you know any conference organizers, feel free to get them involved.
15:02 < tbonnema> :-)
15:02 < tbonnema> in the meantime, we're doing a monthly check-in
15:02 < tbonnema> there is no agenda (at least not for today)
15:02 < tbonnema> you can talk about anything you like.
15:02 < tbonnema> usually, a quick round of introductions is how we start things.
15:03 < tbonnema> (and by "usually" I mean we're doing this for the second time today)  :-)
15:03 < tbonnema> any questions?
15:03 < tropology> my check in:  moving to Ann Arbor at end of the month - eager to connect with civic minded folks there :)
15:04 < tbonnema> I'm Tim Bonnemann, I blog here: http://www.intellitics.com
15:04 < stephenbuckley> I'm Stephen Buckley.  I'm a former U.S. government employee with experience in public planning and participation.  Based on Cape Cod, Mass. http://twitter.com/transpartisan
15:05 < tbonnema> hi, Stephen!
15:05 < mcallan> Greetings folks. Michael Allan, I mostly work on Votorola
15:05  * GChriss is George Chriss, an open video hacker working on bringing full-length video recordings of meetings online
15:05 < tropology> I'm Michael Maranda - active in digital divide/digital excellence and open stewardship efforts - currently in Chicago
15:06 < richard_p> hi, richard parsons, i blog about random things (mostly in the uk) at www.edemocracyblog.com
15:06 < tbonnema> hi Richard. great blog, everybody should read it.  ;-)
15:06 < tbonnema> here's the link to Votorola (pretty cool stuff): http://zelea.com/project/votorola/home.xht
15:07 < richard_p> thanks tim, likewise yours too ;)
15:08 < tbonnema> ok, if anyone joins late feel free to tell us who you are.
15:08 < tbonnema> I had a quick logistical question:
15:08 < tbonnema> we picked 2pm Central on the recommendation of Steven Clift who's done similar things in the past.
15:09 < tbonnema> I heard from someone in Australia that that's a bit early for them.
15:09 < tbonnema> so maybe we can switch it around every once in a while.
15:09 < tbonnema> maybe start at 4pm Central?  unless that's getting too late for our folks in Europe
15:09 < tbonnema> and preferences?
15:10 < richard_p> either works for me
15:11 < mcallan> myself i'll probably hang around all hours, since there aren't many edem channels
15:11 < tropology> might schedule topical things in the channel  relevant to the interested parties .. eventually evolve to more active back channel people leave on in background
15:11 < tbonnema> the second question I wanted to throw out there: if you know of any upcoming events or conferences related to #edem (e-democracy, e-participation, public engagement etc.) please share them here or -- better yet -- try to connect with the organizers to see if they're interested in adopting this IRC as part of their overall communications plan.
15:11 < tbonnema> also: hello, Sandy!
15:11 < tbonnema> :-)
15:11 < tbonnema> and Andy.
15:12 < SandyH> Hi, folks!  It's Sandy Heierbacher from the National Coalition for Dialogue & Deliberation.  How is everyone?
15:12 < tbonnema> we're just getting started. thanks for stopping by!
15:12 < SandyH> Hi to you, Tim!  This is my first time using freenode.
15:13 < AFluke> Hi folks!
15:14 < tbonnema> anyone know anyone at d.go 2011?
15:14 < tbonnema> or ePart 2011 (in Delft, NL)
15:14 < SandyH> What's d.go?
15:14 < tbonnema> those are two conferences I have on my radar
15:15 < tbonnema> http://dgo2011.dgsna.org (June 12-15)
15:16 < tbonnema> http://www.epart-conference.org (August 29 - September 1)
15:17 < tbonnema> those two should make good candidates.
15:18 < tbonnema> if anyone knows anyone there, let me know. otherwise, I'll try to reach out to them cold.  ;-0
15:18 < tropology> anyone planning to attend Contact Conference (NYC, October)?
15:18 < tbonnema> URL?
15:19 < tropology> http://contactcon.com/
15:21 < tbonnema> "Contact will seek to explore and realize the greater promise of social media to promote new forms of culture, commerce, collective action, and creativity. I'm inviting technologists, artists, activists, businesspeople, funders, and other stakeholders in the networked future, to come together to hatch new ideas, connect with new collaborators, and forge an ongoing community for innovating social media and beyond.”
15:22 < tropology> I'k in the midst of relocating -- so everything is up in the air, but I have been looking forward to Contact Conf for a few months already 0they also have a vibrant discussion community well in advance of the event
15:24 < tbonnema> yeah, so the cool thing (in theory) about IRC is that you can just stay in the room (provided you use a client).
15:24 < tbonnema> and interesting things may come and float by.
15:24 < SandyH> The Contact Conference looks interesting, tropology!  What's your name anyway?  Do we know each other?
15:25 < tbonnema> or you'll have people to talk to (provided the group is large enough).
15:25 < tbonnema> which, given how niche and fragmented the #edem community is, could certainly be very useful.
15:25 < SandyH> Hey there, Stephen!
15:26 < tropology>  = Michael Maranda - I know you by reputation and following various listservs  -- learned of your work thru Taylor Willingham initially
15:26 < tbonnema> to reiterate, these scheduled (monthly) check-ins are there to help things get started. eventually, conversations will just emerge (hopefully) whenever there's an occasion.
15:28 < stephenbuckley> I would like to ask the group for suggestions about where I should post a draft document (GoogleDocs? Participedia wiki?) so that people can publicly comment on it.  I'm trying to create a one-page universal survey for people to provide feedback on any type of Public Engagement event (online or off).
15:28 < tbonnema> I'd say Google Docs
15:28 < tbonnema> (between the two)
15:29 < tbonnema> Participedia is more for documenting stuff that exists or has happened, as far as I understand.
15:31 < tbonnema> @Stephen you might find this interesting/helpful: http://www.iap2.org.au/sitebuilder/resources/knowledge/files/674/undecevaluationframeworkforcommunityengagement.pdf
15:31 < richard_p> stephen, what kind of commenting on the doc do you want? just adding comments like on a blog page, or being able to make edits to the text too?
15:32 < stephenbuckley> Hmmm, thanks.  I have used GoogleDocs only as a commenter, and have been surprised that I could revise the originator's document without any apparent controls on me.  Is there a way to exert some type of editorial control over my commenters?
15:37 < tropology> you mainly want comments not editing the content. right?
15:38 < richard_p> I think with Google Docs the access is all or nothing... an alternative might be the Commentpress or Commentariat themes in Wordpress which allow people to comment on parts of a document without editing the original text
15:38 < stephenbuckley> I want the platform to show everyone's suggested edits for a particular passage (so they can later point to their contribution with pride) while not ceding editorial control (otherwise it would be hard to keep it to a single-page).
15:39 < tbonnema> hey guys, I gotta drop off early today. thanks everyone for coming. please tell others who might be interested.
15:39 < tbonnema> and good dates for the next one?
15:39 < stephenbuckley> Is the web-address at CommentPress.com?  Commentariat.com?
15:40 < tbonnema> july 6?
15:40 < SandyH> Good to "meet" you, Michael!  (Just catching back up with the thread)
15:40 < tropology> July 6 sounds good
15:40 < tbonnema> ok.
15:40 < tropology> likewise SandyH
15:40 < tbonnema> here's one resource I wanted to share, a new Linkedin group on online community engagement. they're off to a great start with 200+ members already: http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Online-Community-Engagement-3900594
15:41 < tbonnema> (and pretty active/insightful discussions)
15:41 < tbonnema> ok, bye.
15:42 < tropology> @SandyH this is what I spend most of my time contemplating and trying to operationalize  http://www.coalitionblog.org/2010/09/stewardship-and-open-culture/
15:42 < stephenbuckley> Tim  -- Is there an archive of the IRC comments?  (My connection dropped for 15 minutes in the middle.)
15:44 < richard_p> stephen, commentariat is here http://sandbox.bis.gov.uk/code/ ... not quite sure where commentpress has got to! :/
15:44 < richard_p> actually, sounds like the kind of thing you want is almost Google Wave... not sure if that still lives, but it used to be at wave.google.com
15:45 < mcallan> stephenbuckley: i'm logging the channel here: http://zelea.com/var/cache/irc/edem/11-06/01
15:46 < stephenbuckley> Thanks for that information, richard_p and mcallan.
15:46 < SandyH> Stephen - we used quicktopic.com to allow people to comment line-by-line on a couple drafts of the Core Principles for Public Engagement.  Combined with the Vanilla Forum for general comments and brainstorming, and core team work, quicktopic worked really well to get feedback on specific text in the draft. It's not pretty, but very functional and easy to use.
15:47 < mcallan> Google quashed wave, not enough "critical mass" i'm told
15:47 < conseo_temp> i think google itself cannot establish new standards for something like mail, this takes much longer to bring something like that forward
15:48 < conseo_temp> mcallan: is this supposed to be a successor to #metagov?
15:48 < tropology> speaking of wave -- did they implement a tool to export content from wave?  there was an edem/partipatiicipation wave with some good content
15:48 < richard_p> yeah, thought google might have just stopped developing it but left it running... havent been back to look in a long time
15:49 < tropology> conseo_temp:  I thought more overlapping than succession
15:49 < conseo_temp> at least here are finally some more people...
15:49 < mcallan> conseo_temp: tim bonneman open this channel: http://groups.google.com/group/sunlightlabs/browse_thread/thread/4a566b021617fcf1
15:50 < conseo_temp> ok
15:51 < richard_p> just to add, if anyone has a blog or something and wants to embed a chat window for this room inside a page, the code to do it is just:  <iframe src="http://webchat.freenode.net?channels=edem&uio=Mz1mYWxzZSY5PXRydWUmMTE9MjU262" width="100%" height="600" frameborder="0"></iframe>
15:52 < tropology> aside from aiming for this to be potential back channel for events/conferences -- we might want to connect with other online events or stage presentations from this channel
15:53 < conseo_temp> ok, i am just wondering about the relationship between #metagov and #edem, since it makes sense to merge any discussion about edem (metagov is pretty silent)
15:56 < SandyH> Michael:  I was just checking our your Coalition of the Willing site.  Interesting stuff!  You're obviously doing important work.  If you think the Coalition's work involves dialogue and deliberation, I encourage you to submit a post about the Coalition to NCDD's Resource Center by filling out the direct-to-blog submit form at www.ncdd.org/rc/add
15:57 < stephenbuckley> Speaking of events -- is anyone going to this Sunday's OpenGovCamp in New York City?  http://www.opengovnyc.org
15:58 < tropology> SandyH:  thanks -- I will keep that in mind -- I am getting ready for a move to Ann Arbor at the end of the month (wife tooka new job) so  hopefully I can follow up on your offer after I  have survived the move... I will also pass on this comment to colleagues in #cotw
15:58 < SandyH> If metagov is silent, I guess you might as well merge it with edem.  Hard to know if this will stick around long, though.  I'd say if it's easy to do and edem is a more meaningful tag for people right now, then there's no hard doing it.
16:00 < SandyH> Michael:  Good luck on the move!  It's too hot & humid here in Pennsylvania to even think about something like moving!
16:00 < SandyH> I've got to get going, but it was nice chatting with all of you. :)
16:01 < tropology> yes, I need to run too , but I'll be lurking --- be well!
16:01 < stephenbuckley> I will be posting the draft one-pager survey for Public Engagement at the email-group at http://www.OpenGovMetrics.com
16:04 < richard_p> thanks stephen, just applied to join :)
16:07 < stephenbuckley> Thanks to all.  See you next time.
16:08 < richard_p> time for me to head off too, have a good afternoon/evening/morning :)
16:21 -!- Brian is now known as Guest76752
17:35 -!- tbonnema_ is now known as tbonnema
20:49 < tbonnema> @tropology here's the link to the e-participation wave: https://wave.google.com/wave/waveref/googlewave.com/w+O_zF-kjmB
20:50 < tbonnema> no content export tool, as far as I can tell, but shouldn't be too hard to just copy/paste.
20:52 < tropology> hmmm .. diffiicultu depends on how long - how many wavelets .. I thought they were going to create such a tool .. but thanks for the link
20:54 < tbonnema> I stand corrected... there is now an "export this wave" thingy.
20:54 < tbonnema> HTML or Zip/PDF (+ attachments)
20:54 < tbonnema> trying it out right now. ;-)
20:56 < tbonnema> server too busy... mmmkay.
21:01 < tbonnema> HTML export worked
21:06 < tbonnema> btw, totally agree there's an opportunity to use this channel with other online events or to initiate our own.
21:06 < tbonnema> I'm starting to reach out to a few of the major conferences for the remaining year.
21:42 < tropology> :)
21:42 < tropology> thanks for confirming that export tool -- I ought to go and export a bunch of waves myself
21:43 < tropology> speaking of events, not directly inline-- but these things tend to bleed over into each other anyway -- this weekend is "RHoK-3" - Random Hacks of Kindneess
--- Log closed Thu Jun 02 00:00:43 2011